Special Interest Group
Quality Management in Healthcare
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Latest group activity
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Thomas John Rose posted an update 3 months, 4 weeks ago
‘Say what you do and Do what you say’. The basics of a QMS. It’s not quite as simple as it sounds. Second, ‘Do what you say’. Do you know what this means and why we need to do it? If not and you are interested then please as a question here.
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Thomas John Rose posted an update 3 months, 4 weeks ago
‘Say what you do and Do what you say’. The basics of a QMS. It’s not quite as simple as it sounds. First, ‘Say what you Do’. Do you know what this means and why we need to do it? If not and you are interested then please as a question here.
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Sid Beech joined 4 months ago
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Barbara Sowa joined 4 months ago
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Matthew Hill joined 4 months ago
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Peter Dudgeon posted an update 4 months ago
Further to Rollo’s update. I echo how good Juran’s Quality Handbook Is. There is a quality gap model in there, which I’ve always had in mind when thinking about quality. I’ve given it a healthcare flavour here:
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If you don’t understand what Quality Planning, Quality Improvement and Quality Control are then you will never close the Quality Gap. This is NOT the same Quality Improvement as the QI undertaken by the NHS. The NHS have NO Quality Planning and NO Quality Control as described by Juran.
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I’m loving these conversations! I’m pretty new to healthcare QMS coming from a frustrated former risk manager, i’m learning a lot form these posts and just ordered my Juran Quality Handbook.
Really enjoyed the quality gap model graphic @peterdudgeon thank you
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See my comments above. There is no gap in the NHS because despite what Trusts may say the Juran Trilogy is non-existent in the NHS.
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Hi Both. Tom, If there is no gap between patient need/service expectation and service delivery/perception of delivery, we can all pack up and go home (have I understood you correctly?) Of course that gap exists, that gap is a universal truth. The issue is that – without QMS – we cannot understand that gap or seek to close it. When you say Juran’s…Read more
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Ok, you say there are gaps, I say there are total voids with absolutely nothing there to fill them. That’s not the same as a gap! I do agree that some regulated areas in Trusts do not have these voids. I don’t disagree with the value of the diagrams I just say that currently they are difficult to apply to the NHS.
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This is a very interesting discussion to follow. While discussing various management systems, such as QMS, IMS, or ISO 7101, it’s noteworthy that Denmark abandoned accreditation nearly 10 years ago. This decision offers valuable insights for the UK Government and the NHS. The challenge lies in the complexity of these systems, and there is no o…Read more
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Thank you for sharing this – I’ll take a look. I’ll be really interested to see how long they had the accreditation in place before letting it go ie. whether this deeply instilled quality so that the accreditation was no longer required, or whether it was a brief experimentation with accreditation. Thanks again. BTW, that quote on models, is one…Read more
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Rollo Moore posted an update 4 months ago
Tom, my copy of Juran’s Quality Control Handbook (4th ed) arrived last Friday, and whilst it would be an exaggeration to say I could not put it down, (as it weighs best part of a kilogram), nevertheless, I am amazed by its scope. I suppose such a wide coverage is bound to have relevance, but the individual chapters seem highly focussed, and…Read more
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One of the many books that have influenced how we do Quality Management. This is one of the best. The Juran trilogy is so important as long as you don’t change the meanings of each! Happy reading.
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Hi Rollo and Tom – if you fancy a book-chat later in the year about Juran’s Quality Control Handbook, we could help set one up for you…
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Good idea. Not may will have a copy!
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yes, would be great to put it in a context with how we justify the resource and the patient kin notions, which were part of the recent Lachman et al (2021) paper in Tom’s diagrammatic post.
I bought the 4th ed for ~£5 off ebay. I think it might be important to check against 7th edition before going too deep. -
The 4th edition and Annex SL together will be fine Rollo.
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My understanding is that the latest edition of Juran Quality handbook is the 7th Edition. which costs well over £100. The 6th Ed is still over £150 on Amazon
The 5th Edition is free to download from the web for most academic and NHS organisations, or you can buy a copy for about £10 second hand from ebay, 4th Edition is less than a £5.
If you…Read more-
I agree that the 4th or 5th edition contain great detail and are certainly good enough to learn all you need to know to understand quality management. I still use my 4th edition. There is lots for the NHS to learn before being able to design a management system. Annex SL and associated literature in combination with Juran’s and Deming’s books are…Read more
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Is there a particular website you can get the 5th edition from (if you are NHS)?
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The 4th edition is well worth the cost. A hard copy is much better than an on line version or .pdf
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you beat me to the question @lesleymorgan – just beginning this journey for my NHS Trust and a free copy would be a great help.
Also is there the same opportunity for free/discount for ISO7101 anywhere for NHS organisations?
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You can’t get it for free, but your trust might be signed up to the BSI online subscription service (https://knowledge.bsigroup.com/) or have an account which gives a discount.
Took me a while to identify the department in our trust who managed the account, but it was worth doing!
Alternatively, your trust library service might be able to…Read more
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Thomas John Rose posted an update 4 months ago
Putting a MS into you QMS:
See: https://www.catmalvern.co.uk/Lectures/Lecture10/
Without a MS how do you manage (M) Quality (Q)?
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Thanks for sharing this wide-ranging resource, @thomasjohnrose – and thanks for a great QMS Zoom session with you and @jemramazanoglu on Monday. Around 65 people joined us (the recording of it will be up on the Q YouTube channel soon).
You link out to the ELFT QMS. Does this mean that ELFT has a complete and effective management system as part of…Read more
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None of the NHS examples that I have included are Management Systems. I have included some text on what a management system should look like. Annex SL sets this out very clearly.
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Annex SL and supporting documentation describes, very clearly, what a Management System for managing particular characteristics, e.g. Quality, should look and function like. If ELFT do have a QMS then they do need to explain how it works. I have said many times that the Q in a QMS is not the same the Q in QI. I’m sure that many people in the NHS…Read more
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There is NO comparison with the ELFT quality management system and a management system designed for managing quality. The ELFT efforts may be the most cited QMS within the NHS but nevertheless it comes nowhere near compliance to the requirements of BS ISO 7101:2023. To manage quality you need to say what you do and do what you say – with an a…Read more
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Regarding a simple question: Within your Workgroup can you first list your key work processes? and second can you list, sequentially, each task required to complete each process? Please produce your answers in writing. Understanding and documenting processes and tasks is a prerequisite for quality management. Please let me know how you get on with…Read more
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In answer to your final question: No NHS Trust has a quality management system other than in specific, regulated, areas. On of the key characteristics of a QMS is that it produces an audit trail to prove that it does what it says it does. This audit trail is Audited to provide quality assurance. A list of QI projects, as published by ELFT, is…Read more
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Though even one of the most cited QMSs around the UK – ELFT – do, I recently heard, apparently say that they feel like they’re quite early on in the journey and impact will grow much more in future. (NB I didn’t hear this directly from Amar Shah or anyone at ELFT, I must admit).
But do they frame the future of their Quality journey as being…Read more
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There is NO comparison with the ELFT quality management system and a management system designed for managing quality. The ELFT efforts may be the most cited QMS within the NHS but nevertheless it comes nowhere near compliance to the requirements of BS ISO 7101:2023. To manage quality you need to say what you do and do what you say – with an audit…Read more
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How would you reform the CQC in line with Quality Management now the report is coming stating its not fit for purpose? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjk3p4jnnl6o
In an ideal world would you advocate for aligning BS ISO 7101:2023 with NHS Trusts and CQC inspection as a quality assurance measure?
How can the CQC operate and add value to…Read more
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At GOSH we’ve developed a single set of standards that align ISO 7101, 9001, 31000, NHS Impact, CQC standards
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would be really interested in discussing that work @jitolk if you are open to it?
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Trusts should self assess compliance with BS ISO 7101:2023 once it is established in the Trust. It would be great if the CQC also conducted compliance audits to the standard along with their clinical audits but that is a bit of a pipe dream.
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ISO 7101, 9001 and 31000 are already aligned through Annex SL. NHS Impact and CQC Standards have very different aims. It will be interesting to see your set of standards.
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Similar to @Matthulley very Interested to know more @jitolk
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I think Tom made an interesting comment about Trusts in relation to CQC. I do agree that there should be some alignment to ISO 7101:2023 where Trusts conduct a gap analysis to see where they are against the ISO standards and move to address that and then CQC could embark on the external audit side in quality assurance other than their other…Read more
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Tom I would love to get your perspective on what we have done
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I’d love to have a look at what you have done. Is it published anywhere or could you send a link to your set of standards. My email is t.rose.1@bham.ac.uk
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I’ve emailed you Tom
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Jem Ramazanoglu commented on the document Jem’s slides and diagram – Getting to grips with QMS webinar 150724 4 months, 1 week ago
Thanks Maria – happy to discuss with anyone – just drop me a line.
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Matthew Mezey posted an update 4 months, 1 week ago
Reminder: 1pm today
Jem will be discussing his 10 year journey of creating a Quality Management System with Tom. Bring your questions too!
Register here: https://q.health.org.uk/event/getting-to-grips-with-qms/ – all welcome. -
Thomas John Rose posted an update 4 months, 1 week ago
QMS – It’s all about the MS – ‘Management System’. Join us tomorrow, I’ll be talking about management systems and the part that they play.
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About this group
There is now a growing interest in Quality Management in healthcare. This Special Interest Group will help those interested in learning about or implementing a Quality Management System (QMS).
In Quality Management there is a great deal of emphasis on:
- Documenting how work gets done (the steps that comprise the process).
- Examining the flow of work between people or workstations.
- Giving people the knowledge and methods they need to constantly improve that work.
There are a lot of different process improvement methods but almost all of them serve one of two purposes:
- To eliminate variation in quality and speed (a major source of error).
- To improve process flow and speed.
The majority of process improvement work should fall into one of those two categories.
This SIG is convened by Tom Rose.
