See my comments above. There is no gap in the NHS because despite what Trusts may say the Juran Trilogy is non-existent in the NHS.

Ok, you say there are gaps, I say there are total voids with absolutely nothing there to fill them. That’s not the same as a gap! I do agree that some regulated areas in Trusts do not have these voids. I don’t disagree with the value of the diagrams I just say that currently they are difficult to apply to the NHS.

Thank you for sharing this – I’ll take a look. I’ll be really interested to see how long they had the accreditation in place before letting it go ie. whether this deeply instilled quality so that the accreditation was no longer required, or whether it was a brief experimentation with accreditation. Thanks again. BTW, that quote on models, is one…Read more

Good idea. Not may will have a copy!

yes, would be great to put it in a context with how we justify the resource and the patient kin notions, which were part of the recent Lachman et al (2021) paper in Tom’s diagrammatic post.
I bought the 4th ed for ~£5 off ebay. I think it might be important to check against 7th edition before going too deep.

The 4th edition and Annex SL together will be fine Rollo.

I agree that the 4th or 5th edition contain great detail and are certainly good enough to learn all you need to know to understand quality management. I still use my 4th edition. There is lots for the NHS to learn before being able to design a management system. Annex SL and associated literature in combination with Juran’s and Deming’s books are…Read more

Is there a particular website you can get the 5th edition from (if you are NHS)?

The 4th edition is well worth the cost. A hard copy is much better than an on line version or .pdf

For ythe 5th ed try
https://www.academia.edu/13926688/Juran?bulkDownload=thisPaper-topRelated-sameAuthor-citingThis-citedByThis-secondOrderCitations&from=cover_page

You can’t get it for free, but your trust might be signed up to the BSI online subscription service (https://knowledge.bsigroup.com/) or have an account which gives a discount.

Took me a while to identify the department in our trust who managed the account, but it was worth doing!

Alternatively, your trust library service might be able to…Read more

None of the NHS examples that I have included are Management Systems. I have included some text on what a management system should look like. Annex SL sets this out very clearly.

Annex SL and supporting documentation describes, very clearly, what a Management System for managing particular characteristics, e.g. Quality, should look and function like. If ELFT do have a QMS then they do need to explain how it works. I have said many times that the Q in a QMS is not the same the Q in QI. I’m sure that many people in the NHS…Read more

There is NO comparison with the ELFT quality management system and a management system designed for managing quality. The ELFT efforts may be the most cited QMS within the NHS but nevertheless it comes nowhere near compliance to the requirements of BS ISO 7101:2023. To manage quality you need to say what you do and do what you say – with an a…Read more

Regarding a simple question: Within your Workgroup can you first list your key work processes? and second can you list, sequentially, each task required to complete each process? Please produce your answers in writing. Understanding and documenting processes and tasks is a prerequisite for quality management. Please let me know how you get on with…Read more

In answer to your final question: No NHS Trust has a quality management system other than in specific, regulated, areas. On of the key characteristics of a QMS is that it produces an audit trail to prove that it does what it says it does. This audit trail is Audited to provide quality assurance. A list of QI projects, as published by ELFT, is…Read more

There is NO comparison with the ELFT quality management system and a management system designed for managing quality. The ELFT efforts may be the most cited QMS within the NHS but nevertheless it comes nowhere near compliance to the requirements of BS ISO 7101:2023. To manage quality you need to say what you do and do what you say – with an audit…Read more

At GOSH we’ve developed a single set of standards that align ISO 7101, 9001, 31000, NHS Impact, CQC standards

would be really interested in discussing that work @jitolk if you are open to it?

Trusts should self assess compliance with BS ISO 7101:2023 once it is established in the Trust. It would be great if the CQC also conducted compliance audits to the standard along with their clinical audits but that is a bit of a pipe dream.

ISO 7101, 9001 and 31000 are already aligned through Annex SL. NHS Impact and CQC Standards have very different aims. It will be interesting to see your set of standards.

Similar to @Matthulley very Interested to know more @jitolk

I think Tom made an interesting comment about Trusts in relation to CQC. I do agree that there should be some alignment to ISO 7101:2023 where Trusts conduct a gap analysis to see where they are against the ISO standards and move to address that and then CQC could embark on the external audit side in quality assurance other than their other…Read more

I’d love to have a look at what you have done. Is it published anywhere or could you send a link to your set of standards. My email is t.rose.1@bham.ac.uk